If nobody owns the name
- Thread starter mainlyfats
- Start date
little change here - it remains
Beautiful discussion and most have said their peace very nicely. What it comes down to for me and most others is ride although the cool factor is in there and does have an impact. But do any of you really want to hang out with let alone ride with someone who bought a bike solely for the cool factor? I doubt it. Back in the day most of those types of people were buying Kleins or Cannondales if they couldnt afford the former.
Anyway I own a wicked and have had three. I also own an IF deluxe. When it came time to have a custom single speed made I took my wicked frame to my local builder and said, "can you make me a cool, lugged single speed just like this"? So he made me a columbus max tubing ss with eccentric BB. Yep it rides just like my Wicked but much less forgiving. It kicks my ass when Im tired or out of shape but also accelerates and goes where I point it much faster than the wicked. Tight twisty single track is all I want.
If I want to go out and jump, ride some wide open rutted fire roads and play around without paying too much attention to speed and precision then I ride my IF Deluxe.
I dont think there is much money in resurrecting the brand but there probably is opportunity in spec'ing a high end steel hardtail in Taiwan and building a new brand around it.
My two cents and we should probably all just shup and ride.
Beautiful discussion and most have said their peace very nicely. What it comes down to for me and most others is ride although the cool factor is in there and does have an impact. But do any of you really want to hang out with let alone ride with someone who bought a bike solely for the cool factor? I doubt it. Back in the day most of those types of people were buying Kleins or Cannondales if they couldnt afford the former.
Anyway I own a wicked and have had three. I also own an IF deluxe. When it came time to have a custom single speed made I took my wicked frame to my local builder and said, "can you make me a cool, lugged single speed just like this"? So he made me a columbus max tubing ss with eccentric BB. Yep it rides just like my Wicked but much less forgiving. It kicks my ass when Im tired or out of shape but also accelerates and goes where I point it much faster than the wicked. Tight twisty single track is all I want.
If I want to go out and jump, ride some wide open rutted fire roads and play around without paying too much attention to speed and precision then I ride my IF Deluxe.
I dont think there is much money in resurrecting the brand but there probably is opportunity in spec'ing a high end steel hardtail in Taiwan and building a new brand around it.
My two cents and we should probably all just shup and ride.
yeah I guess we're both dealing in sweeping generalisations.... still a healthy (and interesting) debate eh?
just come back from a spin in the spring sunshine here.... I know why I love my Yo
AAAAHH! i love my wicked and want a yo! i am not the one who did not like it!! LOL..
sorry. i was the one here who acted like a jerk. i had no right to be aggressive and just had the wrong perspective on your post. sorry again.
Hi All
This topic has been discussed at length before. The moral high ground of another company using someone elses previous brand name. In this instance FAT chance.
Maybe its just my viewpoint, but if I saw another company using the FAT chance name I'd assume it was for financial reasons IE. responding to a uncatered niche in the market place & not for the love of a cherished bygone brand. imitation NOT being the sincerest form of flattery in this case. I thought this for some time...
... However since jeff@ firstflight restarted mountain goat its got me thinking. again this is just my viewpoint:
1, Any recreation of a brand should have the full blessing of the original owners. I dont care if all the patents & brand logos under the sun have expired; its totally bad form to take somebody elses lifes work & call it your own (espically for a FAsT buck; pun intended)
2, The quality should be representative of previous work. fairly certain that the new mountain goats are built by sycip as a good example. seeing a 2009 budget tiawanese steel "Yo! eddy" would literally be a crying shame.
3, any new models should be totally inkeeping with previous company brand recognition. IE I wouldnt want to see breezer dropouts or yeti curved stays on a 2009 yo eddy. sure single speeds, dirt jump frames, 29ers etc, etc would have been probable later FAT models have FAT stayed open, but dont make the brand unrecogniseable from its origins.
I massively appreciate how utterly biased I am towards FAT & for that I can only apologise. My reasons are purely selfish, I appreciate theres a LOT of love still out there for FAT & I, like several others I dont want to see "cheap, poor quality knock-offs".
as a side note I've never taken employment or wages as a view to level of bike ownership. luckily bikes are relatively cheap (compared to cars, etc) & when I see anyone with a expensive bike I just assume they like bikes
This topic has been discussed at length before. The moral high ground of another company using someone elses previous brand name. In this instance FAT chance.
Maybe its just my viewpoint, but if I saw another company using the FAT chance name I'd assume it was for financial reasons IE. responding to a uncatered niche in the market place & not for the love of a cherished bygone brand. imitation NOT being the sincerest form of flattery in this case. I thought this for some time...
... However since jeff@ firstflight restarted mountain goat its got me thinking. again this is just my viewpoint:
1, Any recreation of a brand should have the full blessing of the original owners. I dont care if all the patents & brand logos under the sun have expired; its totally bad form to take somebody elses lifes work & call it your own (espically for a FAsT buck; pun intended)
2, The quality should be representative of previous work. fairly certain that the new mountain goats are built by sycip as a good example. seeing a 2009 budget tiawanese steel "Yo! eddy" would literally be a crying shame.
3, any new models should be totally inkeeping with previous company brand recognition. IE I wouldnt want to see breezer dropouts or yeti curved stays on a 2009 yo eddy. sure single speeds, dirt jump frames, 29ers etc, etc would have been probable later FAT models have FAT stayed open, but dont make the brand unrecogniseable from its origins.
I massively appreciate how utterly biased I am towards FAT & for that I can only apologise. My reasons are purely selfish, I appreciate theres a LOT of love still out there for FAT & I, like several others I dont want to see "cheap, poor quality knock-offs".
as a side note I've never taken employment or wages as a view to level of bike ownership. luckily bikes are relatively cheap (compared to cars, etc) & when I see anyone with a expensive bike I just assume they like bikes
I just want to clarify a few things for any potential newbies.
1. An IF is not a fat. Especially not a recently built IF. No one who currently works at IF ever worked at fat chance (to the best of my knowledge) a couple of the machines may have seen service at FCC.
2. You could theoretically have a custom bike built to FCC specs and it would be close but not exactly the same. I highly doubt there is any of the original TT tubing left over. Also you would have to find someone willing to spin the stay ends, find the right dropouts etc.
3. Following along from pt. 2 it was the little things about fats that made them appealing to me. It was the untapered stays and awesome tire clearance, the domed stay ends and rock solid dropouts, the toothpick, the short headtubes, the unique colors, etc etc etc.
To me those little extras were what made the frames so desirable. It was those extra steps they took to differentiate themselves in a unique and cool way. Like others have said however it was definitely a product of its time. Today it would be considered way too low tech for the price that all that labor requires. Apparently mountain bikers today want high tech whiz bang never feel a trail irregularity carbon wunderbikes.... which begs the question, Why not just ride on the road? >
1. An IF is not a fat. Especially not a recently built IF. No one who currently works at IF ever worked at fat chance (to the best of my knowledge) a couple of the machines may have seen service at FCC.
2. You could theoretically have a custom bike built to FCC specs and it would be close but not exactly the same. I highly doubt there is any of the original TT tubing left over. Also you would have to find someone willing to spin the stay ends, find the right dropouts etc.
3. Following along from pt. 2 it was the little things about fats that made them appealing to me. It was the untapered stays and awesome tire clearance, the domed stay ends and rock solid dropouts, the toothpick, the short headtubes, the unique colors, etc etc etc.
To me those little extras were what made the frames so desirable. It was those extra steps they took to differentiate themselves in a unique and cool way. Like others have said however it was definitely a product of its time. Today it would be considered way too low tech for the price that all that labor requires. Apparently mountain bikers today want high tech whiz bang never feel a trail irregularity carbon wunderbikes.... which begs the question, Why not just ride on the road? >
maybe all the Fat guys left Lucifer.. but IF proudly displays the fact they are the descendants of FCC.
otoh i agree those IF stays couldn't be more different than Fat and there is a fat chance anyone could reproduce them today.
the official story says chance left the building alone for saratoga while the crew kept welding bikes under the IF name. the first IFs were almost exact copies of yo eddies.
otoh i agree those IF stays couldn't be more different than Fat and there is a fat chance anyone could reproduce them today.
the official story says chance left the building alone for saratoga while the crew kept welding bikes under the IF name. the first IFs were almost exact copies of yo eddies.
They were basically Yo Eddy's but with slimmer top tubes and seat stays..... to give a commfier ride, apparently that was what the FCC staff used to have when they built frames for themselves. The pizootie flange/gusset and toothpick were dropped as well. After a while the TT tubing was dropped in favour of reynolds, if I recall correctly. If's are still a wonderful ride IME.....
mainlyfats
Member
Dropped gusset?
Hmmmm... My FC Team and IF Deluxe SS both have down tube gussets. Are those what you're talking about?
O.K. I'm going to take one more kick at this can and see if I get things going in a different direction. I'm not now, nor have I ever really been, talking about the actual differences between the bikes (love them both) or the differences between the companies. They are completely different in every way to me (except of course for Lloyd Graves!) and almost don't bear comparison. As I said before: apples and oranges.
What I'm trying to get my head around is the perception of the Fat City Cycles brand, the value that brand may have in today's marketplace and who, if anyone, would be interested in taking a stab at drawing blood from the FCC stone.
There are what? 600 of us (120 or so "regular" contributors) and no doubt many more who lurk but don't post. Many of us, regardless of our income or level of education, put a huge heaping whack of our disposable income into bikes and (except for Yo Eddy! and his Miyata issue) a big chunk goes to Fat stuff or to companies in the Fat family tree.
What's it worth? Rody's making stickers. Someone else is making hoodies and t's on Cafe Press. Original BOI's are a grand, so Waltworks, Inglehart and others are making repros for $300-ish. Yos are now going for almost as much as they cost new if they're in good shape. How long before someone clues in that there's gold in them thar hills and that it can be tapped and - perhaps more importantly legally protected - if you OWN THE BRAND?
Hmmmm... My FC Team and IF Deluxe SS both have down tube gussets. Are those what you're talking about?
O.K. I'm going to take one more kick at this can and see if I get things going in a different direction. I'm not now, nor have I ever really been, talking about the actual differences between the bikes (love them both) or the differences between the companies. They are completely different in every way to me (except of course for Lloyd Graves!) and almost don't bear comparison. As I said before: apples and oranges.
What I'm trying to get my head around is the perception of the Fat City Cycles brand, the value that brand may have in today's marketplace and who, if anyone, would be interested in taking a stab at drawing blood from the FCC stone.
There are what? 600 of us (120 or so "regular" contributors) and no doubt many more who lurk but don't post. Many of us, regardless of our income or level of education, put a huge heaping whack of our disposable income into bikes and (except for Yo Eddy! and his Miyata issue) a big chunk goes to Fat stuff or to companies in the Fat family tree.
What's it worth? Rody's making stickers. Someone else is making hoodies and t's on Cafe Press. Original BOI's are a grand, so Waltworks, Inglehart and others are making repros for $300-ish. Yos are now going for almost as much as they cost new if they're in good shape. How long before someone clues in that there's gold in them thar hills and that it can be tapped and - perhaps more importantly legally protected - if you OWN THE BRAND?
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Hey guys, great topic. While I'm FATless now, and riding only road, it's good to see this bantered about.
Here's my feelings, in no particular order...
Fat was never "a bike of the people." Sure, it had a strong, cult following, but my Yo Eddy frame in 1993 was over $1100. That's not really accessible by a lot of enthusiasts, unless they have a lot of disposable income and are kind of soft in the head. It was elitist and snobbish before elitism and snobism was en vogue.
I don't ever want to see the Fat City brand come back, unless it was Chris Chance wielding the torch. That's the only way I would buy one, or even be happy to see them in production again. Brands born out of ashes rarely can live up to the original mystique. Ok, Swobo was cool then and cool now, but it's an anomoly. I think the resurrection of Mountain Got is cool, too, but to me, it took a lot of the buzz away from the original coveted bikes. I don't want to see that aura dulled for Fat Chance bikes, too.
In the mid 80s, Tamiya released a plethora of neat little R/C vehicles, and they are forever ingrained into the hearts of people my age. In the last year, Tamiya re-released these kits in identical formats, not only killing the collector market for old cars and parts, but really putting a haze over the memories you had of how cool those little cars were. Twenty years later, we look at them now and realize how crappy they really were, or how far off of technology they are now.
I think we all have the same appreciation for the finer things in life, and that's one of the reasons why we were drawn to Fat. The company is gone, and what they did in their lifespan was strong enough to still have a following of fans like this 10 years later. But I don't want to see the name soiled by anyone trying to capitalize on the history and name. Unless CC decides to have another crack at it, it makes a mess of everything we know Fat Chance bikes to be.
R.I.P. Fat City Cycles.
doug
Here's my feelings, in no particular order...
Fat was never "a bike of the people." Sure, it had a strong, cult following, but my Yo Eddy frame in 1993 was over $1100. That's not really accessible by a lot of enthusiasts, unless they have a lot of disposable income and are kind of soft in the head.
It was elitist and snobbish before elitism and snobism was en vogue.I don't ever want to see the Fat City brand come back, unless it was Chris Chance wielding the torch. That's the only way I would buy one, or even be happy to see them in production again. Brands born out of ashes rarely can live up to the original mystique. Ok, Swobo was cool then and cool now, but it's an anomoly. I think the resurrection of Mountain Got is cool, too, but to me, it took a lot of the buzz away from the original coveted bikes. I don't want to see that aura dulled for Fat Chance bikes, too.
In the mid 80s, Tamiya released a plethora of neat little R/C vehicles, and they are forever ingrained into the hearts of people my age. In the last year, Tamiya re-released these kits in identical formats, not only killing the collector market for old cars and parts, but really putting a haze over the memories you had of how cool those little cars were. Twenty years later, we look at them now and realize how crappy they really were, or how far off of technology they are now.
I think we all have the same appreciation for the finer things in life, and that's one of the reasons why we were drawn to Fat. The company is gone, and what they did in their lifespan was strong enough to still have a following of fans like this 10 years later. But I don't want to see the name soiled by anyone trying to capitalize on the history and name. Unless CC decides to have another crack at it, it makes a mess of everything we know Fat Chance bikes to be.
R.I.P. Fat City Cycles.
doug
A few Fat refugees still remain at Fat the general attitude is still quite similar at the IF shop. IF still does lots of grassroots support for racers just as Fat did. IF has the same rabid fans who pay big money for old clothing just like Fat fans.
High end hard tail sales are growing and have never slowed at IF. The 29ers are becoming the next big boom here in NE along with SS for racing and hard core riding.
High end hard tail sales are growing and have never slowed at IF. The 29ers are becoming the next big boom here in NE along with SS for racing and hard core riding.