poll: to drill or not to drill

fat-tony

Global Moderator
Staff member
That is the question.........
Finally getting around to ship the old Yo frame off for the re-spray. I am trying to decide if I should drill the drain hole in or not. I do not want to hurt the value of the frame in any way what so ever. WWFCD (what would fatcogs do)?
 

Doug Carter

Global Moderator
Staff member
Hmmm, I would have suggested NOT drilling but coating the base/interior of the seat tube with paint or other rust inhibitor. To me, these frames are far too rare to be cutting and drilling into, but that's just me. I wouldn't touch it with a drill, but I feel pain if my frame gets scratched.
 

yo' djblu

New member
Well, I would think about drilling. I say this ONLY because I bought a Yo! For my wife off ebay and when I got it and was cleaning it. I got it REALLY cheep for such a great bike and parts I should have known there was something hiding, I noticed something that looked like inside out rust. I poked at it with a rod and a small hole appeared right in the seat tube down by the bottom bracket. I was a bit pissed that the guy sold me the bike and never mentioned it to me but he gave me a few items to make up for it. I have noticed that I like the hole actually because it seems her seat tube is MUCH dryer on a constant basis. As for killing the value of the bike. Well I will never let it go I love it so much so I think it only adds to the value as there will hopefully never be any more rust in the seat tube as and water and what not will always drain out. Know what I mean?
 

rody

New member
Tony,

Leave the power tools at home on the bench where they belong. Instead of drilling, this is what I suggest.

Strip the frame of parts and generously wrap all frame tubes with newspaper and electrical tape so that all finished surfaces are covered. Take your lovely frame to a framebuilder/painter/some dude in a back alley, anyone who has the capabilities of GLASS bead blasting and have them shoot the inside of the seat tube (should take 5 minutes and cost you about 10 bucks).

Blow the seat tube clean with filtered pressurized air and then coat the inside of the seat tube with JP Framesaver. Allow to dry before unwrapping the frame and building it back up. If the seat post is a bit sticky, wrap a dowel rod with 400 grit sand paper and lightly sand the interior two or three strokes at a time until it slides easily.

This process will protect the seat tube from interior rust as long as you don't leave your bike submerged in a lake over holiday :eek: .

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks
 

Doug Carter

Global Moderator
Staff member
That's the best suggestion.

A hole not only lets water out, but anyone who has seen the bottom of a late 80s Volkswagen Jetta or Golf door knows that they also allow the metal to RUST faster with more surface area exposed to moist air and MORE oxygen to accellerate the rusting process. A bike frame with holes in it not only allows water to escape, but moisture and condensation in the air to enter the tubes that you are trying to keep in a ferrous state. Your bike will rust likely FASTER while it sits in the garage on a humid day, from the inside-out, because of the holes you drill in your frame.

Short of sealing it up completely, sealing the exposed surface of any metal will eliminate rust better than any other method, and that includes drainage holes for water. If you have holes in open tubing, you'd probably be best off putting AT LEAST rubber plugs in them to allow you to air dry the inside if you need to, but also keep more moisture from entering the holes you have created.


Just my opinion... my bike never sees water. ;)
 

Yo Eddy!

New member
rody said:
Tony,

Leave the power tools at home on the bench where they belong. Instead of drilling, this is what I suggest.

Strip the frame of parts and generously wrap all frame tubes with newspaper and electrical tape so that all finished surfaces are covered. Take your lovely frame to a framebuilder/painter/some dude in a back alley, anyone who has the capabilities of GLASS bead blasting and have them shoot the inside of the seat tube (should take 5 minutes and cost you about 10 bucks).

Blow the seat tube clean with filtered pressurized air and then coat the inside of the seat tube with JP Framesaver. Allow to dry before unwrapping the frame and building it back up. If the seat post is a bit sticky, wrap a dowel rod with 400 grit sand paper and lightly sand the interior two or three strokes at a time until it slides easily.

This process will protect the seat tube from interior rust as long as you don't leave your bike submerged in a lake over holiday :eek: .

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks

WOW... I heard many opinions, but first time I take notice of this procedure. Nice

I put Mike Sander in my seattube. It is very likely the best rust prevention product there is. It is a sticky, thick grease with anti rust additives. It is a bit like butter. Unlike wax it crawls all the time, but it is more than thick and sticky enough to not wash away overtime. Another advantage over waxes is that it doesn't become cracky over time. Apply it and you are done for at least a decade!

Application is a bit complicated as the grease has to be heated (a waterboiler can do it) and you need a compressor and spraygun. I bought myself all equipment and did my car and a few others' bikes at the same time.

Pretty unsure whether the stuff is available in the US. Actually I think not.

Mike Sander
Langzeit Test (German)

I did not dril, but I think a hole won't hurt when all surfaces a protected well. The hole at least allows huge amounts of water to escape after a ride in wet or washing the bike.

On German board I even read some drilled holes in all tubes from inside out. I won't go that far

Melvin
 

yo' djblu

New member
hmmmm.. maybe I better get my wifes bike fixed......I was talkin to a frame painter and was thinking about getting it painted and he does BASIC fixes.. I think this is a good way to go.. Right???
 

rody

New member
Def fix it

Hey Yo'djblu,


If it were my bike, I'd strip off the paint, drill out the rust hole to a slightly larger diameter to fresh steel and fill it with 56% silver.

Then...follow the previous advice from above on prepping and coating the seatube. Any reputable frame builder should be able to help you out.

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks
 

Mojo Troll

New member
No holes for me, thanks.

Have'nt ran across any steal frames with holes drilled in them for drainage. Seen many Alum frames with drain holes, especially in the rear triangle, but not steal.

Otherwise, why would Chris have went through the trouble to seal ever tube possible? Take care of your seat tube and you should be fine for decades.
 

scant

New member
an interesting thread. I've seen older yetis (FROs) rust through due to lack of ventilation. My 2nd yo that I bought off this very forum came with a hole drilled in the bottom of the seatube & they did an exceptionally good job. I live & ride in a fairly wet climate (36in rain a year), trails saturated with surface water etc. FATs did come new with JP already sprayed down the seatube. While I doubt the JP installation process by FAT during construction was as anally adhered to as a devote FATcog remains to be seen. Given FATs still rusted through with JP installed, Id suggest regular maintenance & examination is key. Drilling holes & JP etc are the preventative measures that all too often are applied too late!

Anyone remeber the Action tec dry valve? screwed into the BB shell to allow moisture to escape.. wonder if they actually worked?
 

rody

New member
"While I doubt the JP installation process by FAT during construction was as anally adhered to as a devote FATcog remains to be seen."

Anal? Me?....Mike, I'm touched :D

Honestly though, as special as our rides can be to us, why not take steps to protect them well so we can ride them forever? Creek crossings and mud make me smile, rust though, is a bugger ;)

keep it groovy,

rody
 

MikeyNYC

New member
My Yellow Wicked Frame which I think is a 1989, has a hole on the underside of the downtube and I took a photo of it and asked Wendyll if it was a drainage hole and she confirmed that it was a factory done drainage hole, not sure if it was standard or an option...See Pic:
 

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rody

New member
Gotta admit Mike, never saw a drain/vent hole quite like that :confused:


Logically, a weep hole is located at the lowest portion of a tube to allow the interior moisture to naturally condense and gravitate. The position of the hole in your downtube would require a significant amount of liquid buildup before it ever reached the "spill over" point. Thus, you could conceivably have a large quantity of moisture/liquid sitting in the downtube/bb intersection before it ever was relieved. Remember, water can go in as well as come out. :eek:

Conversely, I've seen vent holes (one at each end) to also allow for vapor to escape upwards. This is the popular construction to allow frames to be purged with argon during fabrication and "breathe" during the life of the frame. These, however, are usually located within tube intersections and not outwardly drilled into the body of the tubing.

With all the effort put into Fat's sealed construction, the position of your hole, and the above logic applied, I find it difficult to believe that was factory placed on purpose.

I hope someone can enlighten us further, but to me, it looks like a center drill mistake that was salvaged and passed off as a drainhole :( to save face (and $).

rody
Groovy Cycle Works
 

MikeyNYC

New member
Rody-

I agree it's in a silly place on the tube-PLUS-Given that this tube is supposed to sealed from allowing any moisture to get in the tube in the first place, so it makes no sense to even have a drainage hole in this tube-it further adds to the Fat City ideaology/wacky mystique!

Anyone know what the deal is with this?

Michael-NYC
 

Doug Carter

Global Moderator
Staff member
I donno, personally I would question how much Wendyl knows about every frame that went out of Fat City, but that's just me. I'd tend to lean towards the words from the guys who actually made the frames, but that's just me.

;)
 

MikeyNYC

New member
Doug Carter said:
I donno, personally I would question how much Wendyl knows about every frame that went out of Fat City, but that's just me. I'd tend to lean towards the words from the guys who actually made the frames, but that's just me.

;)


I actually don't beleive ANYTHING that anyone from FAT CITY (back in Somerville) said or says...back in the day I would always ask a lot of questions and would typically get conflicting answers, so I think that they sort of just did what they wanted up there back then and loosely stuck to certain standards but did a lot of "experimenting". I also think they all inhaled a bit too much gas from the welding torches or paint fumes, which probably only added to their charm, of course!

;)

Michael-NYC
 
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ridefat

New member
drillin'

I agree with Doug and would recommend not drilling into it. Pay attention to when and where you're riding and drain the thing when necessary. A good layer of grease on the seat collar, seatpost, and in the seat-tube can help keep water/grime out too.
 
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