RUST - how to prevent

[Yo Eddy!]

I once heard that rust is a serious problem for Fats. Especially above the Bottom Bracket area Fats are vulnerable for rust. I have seen some Fats with pin-holed seattubes. :shock: I guess the rust problem has something to do with bad ventilation. Maybe Chris and his welders sealed them a bit to much. When I heard of this rustproblem I imediatelly took some measures.

First I started collecting information. I found 2 topics in the German vintage forum:

http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32802&highlight=grove

http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48512&highlight=bontrager

Also interesting was this test of rustprevention products:

http://www.citroen.ac/downloads/2002_10046_Rost.pdf

I hope you all can read some German.

After I absorbed all this information it was time for action. I decided to lay a few layers of ML Tectyl in my seattube. There is now up to 1 cm on the BB. In the test of all the rustprevention products you could read that Tectyl scored only average. So, why did I go for Tectyl?

Because I assume that the the condition in the test differ from those in the seattube of my Yo. I don

 

[Jeeves]

There's some brand-name stuff in the USA called Weigle's "Frame Saver" - which comes in a can. I haven't used it before, but perhaps I should squirt some down in the bottom of my Wicked Fat.

I'd heard folks recommend WD-40 which is a light rust preventative / lube, but in my experience, that stuff doesn't stick around too long. May be different on the inside of a frame, however.

There are quality rustproofing agents in gun oils as well -- CLP Break-free comes to mind, but the problem with the CLP is that I'm not sure that it comes in an aerosol, so application might be harder.

So when exactly did they start sealing the tubes? Are the top and down tubes are totally sealed, and therefore only subject to whatever moisture may have been in the air when the bike was assembled?

Good thread, Yo Eddy!
-Raj

 

[Yo Eddy!]

According to IF Weigle

Here you find what the people from IF advise:

http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steeldeluxe.shtml

:!: Go to the

 

[Jeeves]

Don't forget, you can always get to the down tube through the water bottle bosses! That just leaves the top tube untreatable without alterations.


I've never looked into me poor old Wicked Fat -- here's hoping there's not too much rust!!

-Raj

 

[Yo Eddy!]

sealed too in my Yo

I am not 100% sure, but I thought the bottle bosses in my Yo didn't provide entrance into the downtube. Sealed too I thought.

The only places where I were able to get were headtube, bottom bracketshell and seattube. That's it. In my Yo there is also a small opening of approx 0,5 square cm between seattube and bracket. That's why I could imagine drilling a hole down under the bottom bracketshell does make sense.

Probably those things differ for various Fats and/or years. :wink:

Melvin

 

[Yo Eddy!]

sealed too in my Yo

I am not 100% sure, but I thought the bottle bosses in my Yo didn't provide entrance into the downtube. Sealed too I thought.

The only places where I were able to get were headtube, bottom bracketshell and seattube. That's it. In my Yo there is also a small opening of approx 0,5 square cm between seattube and bracket. That's why I could imagine drilling a hole down under the bottom bracketshell does make sense.

Probably those things differ for various Fats and/or years. :wink:

Melvin

 

[rick]

water bottle bosses

you are correct, in the later bikes these holes were sealed, unlike the earlier bikes.
Without checking the catalogs I do not recall exactly when this change took place.

 

[yoshboston]

thanks for posting the IF link

it was very helpful

 

[Digger90]

When I build up my new (old) Yo Eddy I will be rust-proofing it liberally!

I will most likely deploy the off-roader's (Land Rover) favourite: a potent concoction of Waxoyl, heated and mixed with Diesel. The diesel thins the Waxoyl and enables it to 'creep' into all the little nooks and crannies sufficiently well to keep a Land Rover chassis - renowned for rusting like a rusty thing on a rust-seeking-mission - clean.

An alternative is simply diesel mixed with engine oil - new oil, not old. This cleans and lubes and rust-proofs the iside tubes, but will need re-application every 6 montsh or so as it doesn't 'stick' like the Waxoyl does.

Waxoyl is well named, because it's a waxy oil. so it's pliable when warm/first applied, but dries to a waxy residue.

The trick for any successful rust proofing is proper application though - you should warm the Waxoyl for at least 30mins in warm water (I keep re-boiling my kettle) and spray it properly. I am lucky - I have a 4HP 300cu ft/min Air Compressor with high pressure spray gun!

 

[Yo Eddy!]

New chapter in my rustprevention story.

Recently I was looking for the best way to preserve my classic SAAB. I already knew deciding for testwinner Mike Sander's would be the best way to go. I found a decent company and asked them whether they would like to do a bike. They said; 'A bike? Yes, we like!'.

Before I brought them my Yo! I removed the ML Tectyl(so much inferior compared to Mike Sander's) already present with Innotech Ultraclean.

At the shop they give it the threatment immediately. I was told it will be exceptionally unlikely I would ever face rustproblems on this bike. Paid the people 10 euros, agreed on my SAAB and left. Easy and money well spent!

Positive feature of Mike Sander's is also that it doesn't require additional threatments. Just leave it there, the stuff(kind of solid grease) will find its way everytime when slighty heated; in summer for example.

BTW the people really liked working on a bike. Normally they only do cars. They were interested, asked questions and were full of admiration. One of them was a biker too. He had never heard of Fat Chance before. FATs are seriously rare in Holland.

 

[scant]

I think it would be pretty easy to drill a smaller hole through the bottle cage hole on the downtube without damaging the thread. I might have a go when I get time

FAT originally recommended J.P Weigles frame saver. I've use waxoyl as I could find any J.P in the UK.

 

[bonsaii]

Rust prevention..

Hi!

I own a 93' yo eddy! team colors. I've only ridden it a few meters, and stored it warm and dry for many years.

But:
On my Toyota Landcruiser, witch I totally renovated last year, I used hot chainsaw-oil, mixed with diesel. The frame on this one has never been better rust prevented. I repeat this scenario twice a year.
If you get access to the inside of the tubes (I don't like to interfere with original fabrication) this mixure will evenly distribute, just help it a bit by rotate the frame just after you filled it. Inside of a frametube 50-100ml would be adequate.

The problem with Tectyl, on cars anyway, is that the Tectyl gets hard and dry, and after some time it slips and creates small "pockets" for condenced water to concentrate to the steel. I even takes more time for the water to dry up because the Tectyl absorbes it.

If condeced water gathers inside a tude treated with chainsawoil-diesel-super-mixture it would'nt get to penetrate into the steel and quickly evaporate when the bike gets stored warm and dry.

Hope this contribution will help FAT and IF owners throghout keep their beautiful frames in beautiful condition!

Best regard from Norway! Bons

 

[John]

FAT originally recommended J.P Weigles frame saver. I've use waxoyl as I could find any J.P in the UK.

How do you apply the waxoyl? I couldn't track down any of the JP stuff either.

 

[scant]

spray can. strip the frame down & spray it everywhere! leaves a soapy like residue that sticks to the tubes

 

[John]

I'd only ever seen it in a big tin before....
Picked up a can from Halfords last night whilst kicking back at the local retail park. You spray it over the whole frame as well as just down the seattube ?

 

[scant]

well yeh, sprayed everywhere INSIDE the frame, tho I put a bit down the back of the canti bosses, & underneath the seatstay gusset

 

[ChiefBroom]

I came across this old thread and thought I'd tack onto it what I do that I didn't notice anyone else suggest.

My Yo Eddy! spent its first 10 years in CO where rust wasn't much of a problem. Whenever I took a hose to it, I was careful to pull the seat and drain the tube. Any residual moisture evaporated fast enough not to matter. But the bike followed me back to KS three years ago, where it hung on a stand until recently. I finally took it out on a trail that included some river crossings and a lot of mud. I brought it home, washed it, drained it, put it back up on the stand, and then a few days later looked down the tube on impulse. There was nothing serious, but I got a wakeup call that conditions here impose different demands for rust prevention.

I dug around the house trying to find something I could use to get past the bottle bosses to the bottom of the tube, and hit upon some gun cleaning stuff. It worked great. Best was a combination of pistol and shotgun cleaning attachements to a rifle rod (for combination of length and small diameter). My kit was Hoppe's, but there are other brands -- Wall-Marts usually stock them.

I applied Hoppe's cleaner with cleaning patches attached to a small-bore rifle rod. Then used a short brush to loosen rust forming at the bottom. This wouldn't serve to eliminate advanced corrosion, but it seems like a good approach to early remediation and prevention. Mine now shines like new from top to bottom. When I was done, I used patches to apply gun oil. I'll probably just take care of the seat tube like I would a shotgun, i.e., ritually.

Here's a link to Hoppe's site: http://www.hoppes.com/. Best brushes are those with bristles that extend all the way to the end. Or you can use wire cutters to clip off any twist that extends beyond the bristles.

Apologies if this is old hat. And if anyone thinks it's a bad idea, let me know.